Debate Thread

Cheers, that one works.
I hadn't actually heard about this.

Pretty indifferent, really.

Yeah. I mean, I don't like how the government can just... Do that, but I also think it will totally work, so....


I don;t know.

I don't think it would be effective to those who are already smokers. I mean, I can't say for sure of course, but if I were a smoker, I figure I wouldn't care about whatever picture is on the box of sin sticks I buy, regardless of how terrible it is trying to make me feel.

What they should do is raise the tax people pay with every purchase of cigarettes (There's sales tax in Australia right?) Either smoking rates drop or more money is collected in taxes. Win-win!

Im pretty sure they've already done that.

Also, I agree with you on the first part. It proobably won't do much to discourage people who already smoke. But it might scare away people who don't.

The pictures probably don't do much for a lot of smokers, but it might make at least some of them hesitate, or put off people who want to start smoking.

Personally, I'm happy with everything that is done against smoking. I have pretty bad lungs because of some doctor screw-ups, and I might have a much higher chance of getting lung cancer, and I'm generally an easy going person, but if people smoke in my direction and won't stop, I freak out. Smoking is their choice, don't try to kill me with it, it's serious frigging stuff.

I don't know if any of you are smokers, but I was wondering what you guys think about some governments trying to make smoking in any public places illegal?

Public places, fine, so long as they are very clearly and strictly defined...private places, no. A property owner should retain the right to make that decision concerning his own property. I'm also free not to give such owners my patronage. []

Tasha wrote:

Personally, I'm happy with everything that is done against smoking. Smoking is their choice, don't try to kill me with it, it's serious frigging stuff.

^As an asthmatic with two smoking parents, ^THIS so much.

I can't stand smoking either, I'm usually the first of my friends to tell if someone is/has been smoking in the vicinity of where we are because I just can't breathe the smoke no matter how faint, everything just locks up when I try to inhale. I'm also extremely disappointed with friends if they decide to start smoking, and it's like "I don't know who you are any more", kick in the gut type disappointment too. I feel very strongly about this.

Oh man, I know that feel.
I've never understood the idea of smoking. Perhaps because I grew up hating when my parents smoked and it just turned me totally against it.
I really, really don't get why people start, to be honest.

Well, it has this edgy, rebellious image, I imagine. But yeah, considering how many health problems it causes it's a strange one.

My dad smokes, although he buys the tabacky in a pouch, and rolls his own. I've heard that's not as bad, but still. It's a terrible habit, and I really don't like it. I mean, Im not going to look down on anyone for doing it, that's their choice, and none of my business. And, honestly, Im not even that concerned if they do it around me. I don't have any breathing problems, or anything, and, yeah, I know about second-hand smoke. Maybe I just don't realise the danger, or something, but I guess I just don't care.

Anyway, my point was, it's stupid, but it's just something some people do. I don't like it, but Im not gonna try to stop it, because it's not my business. I feel the same about weed, although, with that, I don't let people smoke it around me. I can't stand the smell.

Jonny wrote:Well, it has this edgy, rebellious image, I imagine. But yeah, considering how many health problems it causes it's a strange one.

Well my parents started pretty young (My mom was apparently buying cigarettes when she was 12, no questions asked) and I think that's what gets a lot of people. They start when they're young and immature, and then the addiction keeps them for years after they realize just how stupid their decision was.

And hopefully that realization will hit my brother too.

Bowen wrote:Oh man, I know that feel.
I've never understood the idea of smoking. Perhaps because I grew up hating when my parents smoked and it just turned me totally against it.
I really, really don't get why people start, to be honest.

Most people smoke just because it helps to take the edge off, or they're looking for an easy escape from life's problems, and tobacco is one of the easiest escapes.

Hate me all you want, bad-mouth the fuck outta me if you want. I smoke. I barely do it though (only one after a tiring and/or stressful day from work (Working with the general public is VERY stressful at times)), but the fact still stands that I smoke cigarettes regardless.

It helps balance out my stress with a mellow feel.

EDIT: I also forgot to mention that I DO at least respect people's personal space while smoking. If you ask me to leave or put it out while in your presence, I will do so.

Smoking is (a)cool, (b)useful for calming you down, (c)incredibly addictive, and (d)in some places a cultural tradition.
So I can def see the appeal of smoking, and nearly everyone I know does. I don't smoke because I don't like being dependent on chemicals. I think it's cruel to force tobacco companies not to display their logos on their actual products, but they're assholes anyway, so.

Taiju wrote:

Bowen wrote:Oh man, I know that feel.
I've never understood the idea of smoking. Perhaps because I grew up hating when my parents smoked and it just turned me totally against it.
I really, really don't get why people start, to be honest.

Most people smoke just because it helps to take the edge off, or they're looking for an easy escape from life's problems, and tobacco is one of the easiest escapes.

Hate me all you want, bad-mouth the fuck outta me if you want. I smoke. I barely do it though (only one after a tiring and/or stressful day from work (Working with the general public is VERY stressful at times)), but the fact still stands that I smoke cigarettes regardless.

It helps balance out my stress with a mellow feel.

EDIT: I also forgot to mention that I DO at least respect people's personal space while smoking. If you ask me to leave or put it out while in your presence, I will do so.

I don't really mind people who do it away from others or are at least willing to do so. I've known a few people who do, my cousins did and they were fine, it's just my experience with many of them is kinda terrible. My parents smoked around the house, and in the car where you really can't get away from it. My brother currently does, also in the house. His room is right next to mine and often my room reeks of smoke. I've even found butts stubbed out around and on my floor. I'm not sure if it's him or his friends that do it, but none of them seem to get the idea of leaving the house to smoke. A few of my former friends pretty much refused to move away from the group whilst smoking and after a while just ditched us because we kept telling them to put it out or move.
So y'know, loads of people I deal with pretty much forced me to deal with it a lot.
But, as long as it doesn't affect me, I guess I'm cool with it.

Alright, I got a new one.


Im really tired, so Im sorry if Im not really getting my point across well, but I agree with this article.

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/22/13408945-no-one-really-cares-us-deaths-in-afghanistan-hit-2000-in-forgotten-war?lite

I'm not really sure what the topic is.
Can you elaborate a little?

Really he's just saying that people should care more about the actual war we have going on than issues like birth control and such. And he's right, but most of America doesn't even remember there's a war on. The media has learned of its mistakes made in covering Vietnam so heavily that people realized what war was actually like and demonstrated against it. Now everyone has forgotten about the war because no one is covering it.
It's a little bit more of an issue than 'Support our Troops' in Texas, because nearly every young man joins up at some point and does a couple tours in Afghanistan. These being our friends and neighbors, we tend to care more about the 'war effort', but it doesn't figure much into our day to day lives.

Yeah, that's about right. People should care more about the war, so we can end it already.

I guess there's really not too much else to be said.

My whole life I've thought that I have to wear a bra if I have breasts. When I started to develop breasts I became incredibly self-conscious about them because I wasn't wearing a bra, which is somehow indecent. I've never really thought about the fact that I DON'T HAVE TO. Society has always told me that I should conceal my breasts, change their shape, hide the fact that I have nipples- even though everyone already knows already I have them.
However, if one day I rock up to my school braless, everyone will think that I am somehow slutty. In putting a bra on breasts you make them a sex object- the bra is there so it will come off later. But if you don't put a bra on in the first place, you're just as much a sex object, aren't you?
Discuss boobs people. Do it for realsies.

Damn, I had a debate topic but I was waiting for interest in Zebra's to die down and now I can't remember it.

I can't say I've ever really noticed "Zebra" as a judgement on girls that don't wear bras, but I can understand what you're getting at. I think what I see around here is that people will treat women without bras more like objects. I mean, I'll be honest, if I see a girl with no bra on and she's jiggling about all over the place like Chubby Checker, I'll take a look. It's not to be negative, it's just something that happens.

I've not had the experience of being a bonny lass, so I might just leave it there until someone puts in something I can contribute on.

I really couldn't care less if women go braless. If you wanna show what you got, flaunt it! Working as a cashier I was actually kinda surprised at how many women come in braless but they usually don't have any bras on only when it's too hot or too early in the morning for them.

I'm not sure if I remember correctly but one day in tinychat me, Dewmann, and Ziggy got into a debate about why it's ok for men to go shirtless but when a woman does it for some reason it's looked down upon?

semicolon wrote:Damn, I had a debate topic but I was waiting for interest in Zebra's to die down and now I can't remember it.

I can't say I've ever really noticed "Zebra" as a judgement on girls that don't wear bras, but I can understand what you're getting at. I think what I see around here is that people will treat women without bras more like objects. I mean, I'll be honest, if I see a girl with no bra on and she's jiggling about all over the place like Chubby Checker, I'll take a look. It's not to be negative, it's just something that happens.

I've not had the experience of being a bonny lass, so I might just leave it there until someone puts in something I can contribute on.

Im going to be perfectly honest..... I don't get it.



On topic though, well..... That's just the way it is. Im chubby, so I can't wear skin tight clothing. Why? Because it's gross. Why is fat gross? Well, honestly, I have got no idea. But that's just how it is.

Personally, I have no problem if women don't wear bras. Im going to look though, because, like Semi said, that's unavoidable.

I'm in that same boat. If a lady is all but completely baring her breasts, and said breasts interest me enough, I'll find myself enticed, making observations in my head such as, "OOOHHH DAYUM."
But I will not think any less of the owner of the breasts in question. I have no reason to think of her as a frequent practitioner of erotic acts. Maybe it just happens to be laundry day at her place? Or the heat really gets to her?

I dunno if it would add to the conversation but, Ziggy I believe we now have a (albeit complex) social attitude towards boobs and women's bodies in general due to social changes over a long period of time.

Granted I know you have breasts and nipples and it should not be a big deal that you have them, but I don't think you be willing to show me what you got either should I ask. Not to make the accusation of holding a double standard that is just how society (US in general imo) holds.

The US is actually quite the prude when compared to other nations when it comes to nudity and sexuality. Granted we have skimpy clothes but if any jangly bits come appearing in public then the whole towns-head is up in arms. This I think may be accredited to the puritan settlers. The puritans aggressively attacked and attempted to subdue sexuality in all it's forms under their ideals. Ideals which were distilled from other beliefs so forth and so on. You may think this was a couple of hundred years ago but when you think about it wasn't even 5 generations passed and ideas get passed from generation to generation each generation adding or modifying the idea to suit their own taste and then pass it along to others.

I do not wish to pin it on anyone since the attitudes come from many sources let it be religion speaking against sexuality as sinful behavior or a self entitled authority figure like a congressman or king indulging their own desires due to lack of self accountability or down to parents who may have had a poor personal experience and wish to shut such things from their child's life. Ideas and personal experiences can be shared from person to person so where we are at now is just a jumble left over from years past. So you can be left with "gender roles" or seemingly double standards of how men may be allowed shirtless but a woman can't since that would be offensive to someone.

As far as images of sexuality and beauty go it follows the same pastern. It is unfortunate that "ideal beauty" is impossible for any human to achieve but it also causes much social stigma on those who feel it is expected of them to conform to it.

As far as bras go, I do not require to wear one myself so I do not have an opinion really.