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Debate Thread

+23
SQUIGGLES
Top Hat Zebra
AwesomeMedic
Angua
Katls
Travelcube
Bowen
Packie
someguy3657
Ziggles
A Sinister Speaker
votecoffee
Messernacht
D-Munny
Samiam
Tacoline
Gorgro
JT_the_Ninja
Jonny
Tuomey
Dog Breath
AJ
Hollyღ
27 posters

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276Debate Thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Debate Thread Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:33 pm

Top Hat Zebra

Top Hat Zebra

This, is music:



Or,



or,



Hell, this doesn't even have music in it, but it's still more musical than that.



Or,



Etc.


What you posted is well made. It is high quality, there's nothing wrong with the actual sound.

But it's still not a good example of music.

277Debate Thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Debate Thread Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:37 pm

Gorgro

Gorgro
Glorious Leader

I agree with Zebra there, I do think that music made by actual musicians with actual instruments is still superior to the computerised stuff.

On this topic, and going off what katls said in the other thread, I actually think it is acceptable to express your dislike for the music, if you don't specifically insult the people listening to it.

https://treehouse.forumotion.com

278Debate Thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Debate Thread Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:38 pm

Top Hat Zebra

Top Hat Zebra

I would also like to add that I think banning someone for expressing their opinion is wrong.


*whistles casually*

EDIT: Except Semi.

279Debate Thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Debate Thread Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:44 pm

JT_the_Ninja

JT_the_Ninja
Ninjafleet Captain

I think country music would be fine if they didn't sing...it's really the vocal style to which I object. []

http://www.jttheninja.com

280Debate Thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Debate Thread Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:47 pm

D-Munny

D-Munny

The reason why all of those classics are such great examples of music is because they were remembered throughout history. No one remembers the average stuff, we only remember the stuff that's fantastic.
And besides, as time goes on, new generations will have different opinions on what music is. Maybe in 20 years, computerised stuff will be what comes to people's heads when they think of music.

281Debate Thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Debate Thread Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:50 pm

Travelcube

Travelcube

Gorgro wrote:I agree with Zebra there, I do think that music made by actual musicians with actual instruments is still superior to the computerised stuff.

On this topic, and going off what katls said in the other thread, I actually think it is acceptable to express your dislike for the music, if you don't specifically insult the people listening to it.

That's the same reason why photographers had to fight so hard to actually get accepted in the art world.

Debate Thread - Page 12 Most-famous-photos-afgan-girl-by-steven-mccurry

This is as much of art as this is:

Debate Thread - Page 12 300px-Johannes_Vermeer_(1632-1675)_-_The_Girl_With_The_Pearl_Earring_(1665)

in this same way, just because it is computerized does not mean that the beauty of it changes.

And don't call what people consider music "noise." That's goddamn insulting to all those who enjoy it, all those who try to emulate it, and all those who make it.

http://justhellapornoallthetime.com

282Debate Thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Debate Thread Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:53 pm

JT_the_Ninja

JT_the_Ninja
Ninjafleet Captain

At the same time (and unrelated to any debate about the music presented here), you can't just slap something together and expect that it will be respected, just as you can't just snap the shutter and expect it to be hung up as fine photography. There's such a thing as bad music...[]

http://www.jttheninja.com

283Debate Thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Debate Thread Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:53 pm

Top Hat Zebra

Top Hat Zebra

Dewmann wrote:The reason why all of those classics are such great examples of music is because they were remembered throughout history. No one remembers the average stuff, we only remember the stuff that's fantastic.
And besides, as time goes on, new generations will have different opinions on what music is. Maybe in 20 years, computerised stuff will be what comes to people's heads when they think of music.


The music business doesn't have time for average. It's also not a business that takes notice of modesty.

If I ask you, "Can you play?" I dont want to hear" Im ok, I guess."

He would get passed over.


Music has no time for average. No one wants to listen to average. If you're not great, then you're not worth working with, or listening to.





Also, it's not neccessarily about the beauty. It's the skill.

It takes far more skill to paint a masterpeice than it does to get the right angle with an HD camara.

Just like it is far more impressive for someone to actually play an instrument, than for someone to make an entire song with a computer.




Last edited by Top Hat Zebra on Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:56 pm; edited 1 time in total

284Debate Thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Debate Thread Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:54 pm

SQUIGGLES

SQUIGGLES
The 7th Wonder of the World

Sarcasmic wrote:And don't call what people consider music "noise."



This is, by definition, "noise" yet people listen to Merzbow's work.

Does that make it music?

285Debate Thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Debate Thread Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:56 pm

D-Munny

D-Munny

Top Hat Zebra wrote:
Dewmann wrote:The reason why all of those classics are such great examples of music is because they were remembered throughout history. No one remembers the average stuff, we only remember the stuff that's fantastic.
And besides, as time goes on, new generations will have different opinions on what music is. Maybe in 20 years, computerised stuff will be what comes to people's heads when they think of music.


The music business doesn't have time for average. It's also not a business that takes notice of modesty.

If I ask you, "Can you play?" I dont want to hear" Im ok, I guess."

He would get passed over.


Music has no time for average. No one wants to listen to average. If you're not great, then you're not worth working with, or listening to.



That's my point. In 100 years, we're not going to remember all of the computerized stuff. We're only going to remember the best of it.

286Debate Thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Debate Thread Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:57 pm

Travelcube

Travelcube

JT_the_Ninja wrote:At the same time (and unrelated to any debate about the music presented here), you can't just slap something together and expect that it will be respected, just as you can't just snap the shutter and expect it to be hung up as fine photography. There's such a thing as bad music...[]

Yes, but this is considered one of the finest of the genre.

http://justhellapornoallthetime.com

287Debate Thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Debate Thread Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:57 pm

Top Hat Zebra

Top Hat Zebra

Oh, well. Then you're correct.

That's not to say that music made on a computer can't be good. Great even.


But it will never be as impressive as a live preformance.

EDIT: That's one of the finest?!?! I thought it was just some average peice that someone made in their free time!

288Debate Thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Debate Thread Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:00 pm

Gorgro

Gorgro
Glorious Leader

@Zebra: Semi had a reason for being banned, my color restrictions are in the rules thread. It's a good thing I like him, so it only lasted a few hours. But that's off-topic.

I think calling it 'noise' isn't really that insulting to other people. That's just an opinion. If someone says something like dubstep is noise, I totally get what that person means. Some dubstep, techno or whatever electronic music can literally give me headaches if I listen to it long enough. I think that constitutes as 'noise', and I will reserve the right to call it that if I so choose.

https://treehouse.forumotion.com

289Debate Thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Debate Thread Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:00 pm

JT_the_Ninja

JT_the_Ninja
Ninjafleet Captain

That was actually pretty good...I liked it.

Then again, I listen to this:



and this



[]

http://www.jttheninja.com

290Debate Thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Debate Thread Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:04 pm

Top Hat Zebra

Top Hat Zebra

Gorgro wrote:@Zebra: Semi had a reason for being banned, my color restrictions are in the rules thread. It's a good thing I like him, so it only lasted a few hours. But that's off-topic.

I think calling it 'noise' isn't really that insulting to other people. That's just an opinion. If someone says something like dubstep is noise, I totally get what that person means. Some dubstep, techno or whatever electronic music can literally give me headaches if I listen to it long enough. I think that constitutes as 'noise', and I will reserve the right to call it that if I so choose.

I was actually refering to the fact that Katls banned me from the Tinychat room...

@ JT: Yeah, that's totally noise. It's not bad, it's not good.

It's just noise.

291Debate Thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Debate Thread Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:05 pm

JT_the_Ninja

JT_the_Ninja
Ninjafleet Captain

Meh...it's not for everyone. []

http://www.jttheninja.com

292Debate Thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Debate Thread Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:07 pm

SQUIGGLES

SQUIGGLES
The 7th Wonder of the World

Gorgro wrote:It's a good thing I like him, so it only lasted a few hours.

I LIKE YOU TOO

293Debate Thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Debate Thread Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:08 pm

Travelcube

Travelcube

Gorgro wrote:I think calling it 'noise' isn't really that insulting to other people. That's just an opinion. If someone says something like dubstep is noise, I totally get what that person means. Some dubstep, techno or whatever electronic music can literally give me headaches if I listen to it long enough. I think that constitutes as 'noise', and I will reserve the right to call it that if I so choose.

Calling it noise reduces it to a level akin to trash. Imagine someone calling your writing (or coding) "unreadable jibberish" then them saying "Be cool dude its just my opinion." If it was coding though imagine it as one of your peers saying that.

http://justhellapornoallthetime.com

294Debate Thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Debate Thread Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:12 pm

Top Hat Zebra

Top Hat Zebra

Coding IS unreadable jibberish to a lot of people.


So is music.

I can read both, and if someone said it was jibberish, well... Who cares. It is, to them.

295Debate Thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Debate Thread Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:33 pm

Travelcube

Travelcube

Hence the peer clause.

http://justhellapornoallthetime.com

296Debate Thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Debate Thread Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:38 pm

Gorgro

Gorgro
Glorious Leader

Well, it is an opinion, and I can still decide to take the criticism and do something or just ignore it. (It also less applicable because that usually has an objective way to determine how good/bad it is rather than subjective like music.)

Now I don't know the exact situation that occurred, but in case someone posted some random music and Zebra said it was bad, who even cares? I don't care if someone says the music I listen to is garbage.
If something was posted that was created by one of you, then just put the criticism in perspective. Is there a reason this person feels that way or is it just a dislike for the whole genre? In the first case you can try to find out what could be done to improve and in the second case no one should even care because he's not the intended audience anyway.

No reason to overreact to something as silly as this.

https://treehouse.forumotion.com

297Debate Thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Debate Thread Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:42 pm

Top Hat Zebra

Top Hat Zebra

Ah. I missed that part. Perhaps, I might be agraveted. But what if you didn't know code, and you made some, and someone who DOES know code said it was terrible?

Also, calling something noise is not the same as calling it trash. Trash implies that it is terrible music, and shouldn't even exist.

Calling it noise is just that. Calling it noise. It's well developed, and is high quality. But that doesn't make it music.

298Debate Thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Debate Thread Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:45 pm

Ziggles

Ziggles

I enjoy Willie Nelson and a few Steve Earle songs. It's the storytelling and the simple melodies I love about the songs.
As a Texan, I also enjoy country rock sometimes. Not the Jesus stuff, but, well, this has been on the radio lately:

Note Gaga pretending she is from the South for some reason.

299Debate Thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Debate Thread Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:51 pm

Top Hat Zebra

Top Hat Zebra

I enjoy any music at all, as long as it's good.

300Debate Thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Debate Thread Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:01 am

JT_the_Ninja

JT_the_Ninja
Ninjafleet Captain

I'm gonna do something odd for me; introduce a topic here. The reason is that it's a TTBM, but it might incite a debate no matter how I phrase it.

Friend of mine reposted a link to an article saying that Arizona's proposed House Bill 2625 would let employers fire employees for using birth control, because Arizona is an "at-will employment state."

There are so many things wrong with that, which I found out upon, you know, doing the research. I had to wade through a number of blog sites (HuffPo, among others) all repeating the same line, until I found the Arizona government's site with bills posted with revisions.

After reading the current revision, it's clear the bill is not about employment termination at all. It says,
Spoiler:

Shorter version is that an employer who has filed a written affidavit stating that he has a religious objection to including contraceptives in employer-provided health care plans may require that employees first pay for the contraceptives themselves (birth control pills may be obtained for free at some clinics or for $9 for a month's supply at places like Wal-mart) and then submit medical proof that the contraceptives were for medical, non-contraceptive reasons before being compensated (which covers those who take it for hormone-regulatory reasons, etc.). There is nothing there about termination of employment. It is a very reasonable exception to avoid violating the rights of employers.

Now, onto "at-will employment." It's true, the at-will employment assumption is in effect in Arizona, as it is in every state in the Union, in some form or another. The article is fundamentally misrepresenting the concept. At-will employment is in effect where there is no union in place and means that employees are free to quit and employers are free to terminate (with clauses). Federal law states, however, that employers cannot terminate for retaliatory purposes, and Arizona is among the states with a "good faith" clause that states there must be just cause.

So, effectively, the law changes nothing. The law does not provide for termination if an employee is "caught" using birth control, in fact it specifically says employers should provide unless they log a legal document stating their religious objection (in which case the employee is free (under at-will employment) to find another employer.

The "outrage" over this is just absolutely ridiculous, especially because those who are screaming about it fundamentally misunderstand the issues. It is not an issue of women's rights; it is not an issue of availability; it is an issue of freedom of employers not to be forced to pay for something for somebody else to which they have a religious and moral objection. They scream "Government should not be interfering!" and they're right! I agree! Government cannot (Constitutionally) and should not override an employer's religious beliefs, and they should not interfere with the services employers choose to offer to their employees. This screaming about a "war on women" has got to stop. There is only a "war" so long as the mainstream media keeps harping on the same issues, badgering conservatives to defend the same points over and over again, distorting the issues and misinforming the public.

Am I alone here? []

http://www.jttheninja.com

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